Head gasket replacement

[cam]

First post! Hello! I'm a 2-spanner with a lot to learn. My mini is a 1983 1275e.

Chapter I: Not my fault?!

I've replaced the head gasket. I watched the head gasket youtubisodes, read the manual, and it looked quite easy... I had no problems with the procedure until it came time to tighten everything down. One of the studs, and all of the nuts and washers have been replaced, and the mini guy I got them from told me that the correct tightening of these 4 nuts is crucial. The haynes book says that the 4 'rocker pedestal stud' nuts need to be torqued to 32nm. It doesn't specify an order, so I did the middle two first. They tightened perfectly, *click*. The outside right nut however, stripped sometime before 32nm was reached, *plop*. Crap! With the outside left nut I was more careful, setting the torque wrench in increments of 2nm starting at 22. Somewhere between 26 and 30nm the thread started to give way on that one too. Crap!

So, without thinking too hard, I have 3 questions:

Is 32nm actually the correct setting?, how do I stop this from happening?, and WTF?

Chapter II: My stupid fault.

After this, I decided I was going to temporarily add another nut (the original one) to the right-most rocker stud (on top of the stripped one), torque it to 32nm, and then add a spacer on top of the rocker cover so that the tightening bolt could tighten. Stupid stupid plan, I know, but you can see why I thought it would work, right?

All was going well (both nuts were turning together), and somewhere before 32nm (I wasn't doing it incrementally) the stud snapped, just between the stripped nut and it's new nut hat. So the stripped nut is still sitting there, with no stud protruding from the top.

By now I'm actually thinking, but I only have one more question:

How best to remove the snapped stud without risking breaking it off even lower than it's already broken?

Any help, advice, words of wisdom, condolences, or even just a good slap for being a fool, would be heartily welcome!

Thanks from a noob without wheels...

Campbell

[Gr4H4m]

Deano is the head gasket speed demon... the time it takes me to get the carbs off hes changed the lot:D


The order of the bolts is critical to ensure that the head is torqued flat to the block.... so is the order of removing them

There are two options:

1st one

---6------2----- 4------8

7-----3------1------5------9 Rad on this side


Second

---6------2------3------7

9-----5------1------4------8 Rad on this side


For the cost I would use a new head stud kit, from minispares or Somerfords to make sure you get good quality. Make sure that you get thick washers I got my stud kit from minispares and the washers from Somerford, but it I did it again It would be somerfords.....
anyway with a new stud and nut kit I have read from ARP's website that the threads need bedding in... they recommend oiling the threads and torquing each stud down 5 times releasing the pressure each time.

I did all of the nuts up to 1/2 torque settings (about 25LBFt) then to the full with a smooth non jerky actions as you have to get past the initial friction...

I did the rocker nuts inline with the head stud... and made sure that the rocker arm tension was off..

Not sure why you are stripping them unless you are doing them first before the head studs and the rocker gear is taking all of the pressure??? or the studs are knackered.. if you are worried you could remove the head and use some mole grips to take the stud out..

Got any pics

[Deano]

Hi Cam welcome to the forum :) sounds like you have been having fun.

The 1st tightening sequence that Gr4h4m has put up is the one to go for also undo in sequence.

you can try a stud removing tool to get the stud out but if it has snapped once its likely to do it again then its a case of drilling the old bolt out & using a helicoil to fix a new stud in. Not an ideal situation but better than a new engine:eek:

Cheers Deano

[Deano]

40 ftlb is the correct torque setting i usually go another 5lb:)

[Administrator]

Sounds to me you didnt renew the head studs though. Hence then being weak with possible age.

Once removed be worth running a tap to make sure the threads and clean and that everythings well, then fit a new stud kit,

Or as deano said, helicoil.

[Gr4H4m]

40 ftlb is the correct torque setting i usually go another 5lb:)

book was in the garage and I couldn't get off the chair...:D

[TONYELF]

book was in the garage and I couldn't get off the chair...:D

couldn't or wouldn't ?? LOL:D

[TONYELF]

Sounds to me you didnt renew the head studs though. Hence then being weak with possible age.

Once removed be worth running a tap to make sure the threads and clean and that everythings well, then fit a new stud kit,

Or as deano said, helicoil.

running a tap!!!!! fancy saying that to some one whos new to the game? He'll be wondering whats water gonna do in this case! LOL:D :D

A new meaning to "flooding the engine" ???????

[cam]

1up, thanks for the tips!

The nine larger nuts are already rightly tightened: will the gasket still be okay if I loosen them (to get the rockers off and work the broken stud out of the head) and then tighten them again?

It didn't occur to me that they could just be old and tired... I kind of thought that they would be able to withstand the rated torque settings "forever" ;) I'll get some less wasted ones this afternoon, or a new set if they are available locally.

Before the head got tightened down, it was able to wiggle just a little: 1.5 millimeters or so, back and forth on the studs. Does it matter? I think not, but what I think and what is real are not always related... perhaps it is supposed to sit *tight*.

I'm thrilled I found this forum... I finally have someone to ask questions of! I reckon I'll ask before I do just about anything in future, both to make sure I don't cock it up, as well as to put more words onto the site for future noobs to google out when they are in need :)

thanks!

[TONYELF]

Welcome to the forum M8.(forgot that on my previous post!)
Are you local to miniaddicts (Chester & North Wales), Have you any pics to post?:)

[cam]

Hey hey; Shot a lot! I'm in Cape Town South Africa. Most new parts are imported, but it costs more to do that myself. I paid R160 for the payen head gasket at a local any-old-spares-shop, about 11 pounds. Out of curiosity, how does that stack up with what you'd pay that side?

This car of mine is a real hack job... I'll post pictures if you promise not to laff :)

[TONYELF]

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/UK-CLASSIC-mini-parts-and-spares
Add this to your favorites. head gaskets about £6 or "£8 for set
as for photos will you hear us laugh?:D :)

[Deano]

Hey hey; Shot a lot! I'm in Cape Town South Africa. Most new parts are imported, but it costs more to do that myself. I paid R160 for the payen head gasket at a local any-old-spares-shop, about 11 pounds. Out of curiosity, how does that stack up with what you'd pay that side?

This car of mine is a real hack job... I'll post pictures if you promise not to laff :)

I pay £10 for payen head set

[Gr4H4m]

£11 seems a good deal... if you have the fibre style gasket you will need to replace it... as it will breakup when you remove the head.... the new stud kit cost me about £25....

oh let see the pics

[cam]

The head is back on, 2 studs and a push rod later: Thanks! I made a new thread:
http://www.miniaddicts.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=16181#post16181

...I thought this was an electrical issue but now I've got a little electrical tester and checked all the wires and connections according to the book and it does not appear to be electrical at all...

OK and I took some piccies of my boy Wott! He's the white one with the overspray on the engine.. he doesn't have a date or anything, because his motor comes from another car (the body of that one had an accident).

The red one is Maddie, his chicka, a 1098cc from 1974, and she's damn fine! she's also a temporary organ donor every time.

any way thanks again...

[Gafmo]

always lovge seeing a SA motor with the Oil filter where it is

[cam]

always lovge seeing a SA motor with the Oil filter where it is

Where should it go? ;)

[Gafmo]

Normaly (:) ) the oil filter is under the Alternator but with the South Africans its over the otherside of the Dizzy. Hate to do a Oil change on your Motor's

[DanTheMiniMan]

i put an engine in one of the fleet, started doin the head gasket and the stud stripped the block, some spanners were thrown that day!, engine out just cos of one stud :mad: !